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Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on February 6, 2015 at 20:13

You know my ancestors were  great warriors, now on to the scared of my own shadow street! I can not in good conciousness even like this! Have these people nothing better to do with their lives? Perhaps they need to apend some time on the couch getting analyzed?

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on February 6, 2015 at 20:26

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation

an interesting take on nations and what they restrict

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Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on February 6, 2015 at 20:26

That's nuts.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on February 6, 2015 at 20:57

I feel the same way guys, it is insanity.  As Hog says everyone wants to be saved from themselves

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KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by James counsellor on February 6, 2015 at 21:00

Easy to forget how instrumental knives have been in the success of mankind and civilization. Ironic how some consider themselves too civilized for knives.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on February 6, 2015 at 21:29

I am wondering how anyone ever opens a box in that country

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Permalink Reply by John Bamford on February 7, 2015 at 6:48

As I live in England and visit Scotland frequently I feel that I have an idea of how the situation has become this bad.

This is an accurate overview of the knife situation in our country, ie the UK. Anyone who collects knives is generally well advised to keep quiet about the fact . Worse still if you insist on carrying a knife as I do most of the time then the majority of the population WILL regard you as a dangerous crank . There are various charities set up to discourage knife ownership ,usually started by the relatives of some poor soul who has been the victim of a knife attack.  It is usually termed a knife attack, similar to a shark attack, as if no one is to blame for the event. 

After one of these knife attack have taken place a knife amnesty will inevitably be the next thing . Local TV will show a large box of knives being emptied by a member of the police which has presumably been filled by remorseful criminals who have seen the light. The thing I find strangest is that a lot of the knives that are visible at these well publicised events are kitchen knives and even table knives. The usual cry around this point is we are getting knives "off the streets" so that no one else will be injured in a knife crime.

We in the UK can not own ,let alone carry, firearms any more except for tightly controlled shotguns and the occasional rifle for hunting the controls are really strict. I guess that is why criminals in the big cities use knives to injure each other and so carrying a knife is now thought of as carrying a weapon. There doesn't seem to be a need to blame people for injuring each other with knives or any other weapon ,just a desire to blame an inanimate object and stop people owning anything that they need to take personal responsibility for.

Course people like me are old fools who have only carried a knife all their lives without damaging anyone so what would I know about it. Your best hope is your NRA cos when they have taken the firearms away and the stupid people still keep killing each other this time with knives then you will end up the same as we are.

Sorry about the rant !!

Oh yes I see people completely unable to open boxes in this country Jan ,hence the phrase "packet rage" something that most of us on here are not likely to suffer from. They take to tearing at packets with their teeth after a while like animals but would never think of having a pocket knife to help them out cos only criminals carry a knife 

Definite end of rant !!!

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on February 7, 2015 at 9:54

John,

Thank you for the real world view on this.  I guess the reason this hit me so hard is that an entire nation has fallen under the save me from inanimate objects theory.  I see you as absolutely correct in the NRA and Knife Rights being our only hope of keeping it from happening here.  I see this one portion of your discussion at the root of it there and the roots being spread here.  It is beyond any responsible thinking IMHO

There doesn't seem to be a need to blame people for injuring each other with knives or any other weapon ,just a desire to blame an inanimate object and stop people owning anything that they need to take personal responsibility for.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on February 7, 2015 at 10:01

I did kind of snicker at this one as I had never heard the phrase "packet rage".  Now I have this image in my head of trying to open the many packages we received while putting this house together, with my teeth!

Oh yes I see people completely unable to open boxes in this country Jan ,hence the phrase "packet rage" something that most of us on here are not likely to suffer from. They take to tearing at packets with their teeth after a while like animals but would never think of having a pocket knife to help them out cos only criminals carry a knife 

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Permalink Reply by John Bamford on February 7, 2015 at 10:10

Perhaps the package rage is simply a result of not having pocket knives , it is a well known saying over here . I was in a supermarket a little while ago and the checkout girl was trying and failing to open something or other. I was on the verge of pulling out my small pocket knife and helping out. It was about then that I had a vision of everyone screaming and running out the door shouting he has a knife, so I let her chew at it till it came apart.

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FeaturedPermalink Reply by Charles Sample on February 7, 2015 at 10:54

Jan, even worse than those is if you happen to be with someone who pulls out a knife and stabs someone, you could go to prison for murder!

Joint Enterprise

If someone is injured or killed by a knife in your presence you could be prosecuted even if it's not you who uses it. You could be sent to prison for murder in what is referred to as ‘joint enterprise’.

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FeaturedPermalink Reply by dead_left_knife_guy on February 7, 2015 at 11:55

Of course most knife crime that happens in the US, just as in the UK, occurs with kitchen knives, because that's what's most readily available -- kids can get their hands on them pretty easily if they have parents that cook, & angry people can grab them while in a fit of rage at their significant others.

The underlying crime is better to prevent than the tool used to carry out the crime. 

But when knife enthusiasts approach knives as weapons, they kind of shoot themselves in the collective foot, so to speak.  Companies that package items often try to make the packages easier to open without a blade (knife or scissors), and restaurants that serve large cuts of meat tend to provide a knife fit for the task at the meal.  They're prepared for the person who does not have a knife, and the customer starts to expect the manufacturer or service provider to provide them with their product or service without the need for a tool such as a knife or scissors.  

The process feeds on itself, and you can guarantee that at this point, very few companies are going to require customers to provide their own knives when it could mean lost business.  The widespread paranoia surrounding knives, I will posit, occurred after the need for a knife was reduced to a point where the critical mass (or perceived critical mass) of people stopped carrying knives.  Then, one of the last remaining uses for a knife, in popular culture anyway, is as a weapon, so knives are perceived, disproportionately & quite often inaccurately, as weapons.

People averse to assaults in which knives were used often get the blame for "anti-knife" sentiments in our culture, but we're all pretty much averse to such knife crimes, aren't we?  The groundwork was laid by companies that determined that they didn't want to lose sales simply because a prospective customer lacked a convenient knife, & with so many of these companies serving the American population for such a long time, it's entirely possible for Americans to go days, weeks, or even months without the need for a knife.

Reducing the need for knives in American lives has been seen for decades as progress, or simply good business sense, & it became even more so as fewer & fewer Americans (both in perception & in reality) stopped carrying knives.  I'm calling this the "consumer model" underlying much of the perceptions of knives in popular culture.  

The thing is, knives are still incredibly useful, & the one place no one can argue against their use is in the kitchen -- which is why so many kitchens in the UK still have the dreaded knives that find their way onto the streets, & why so many Americans own several kitchen knives when they might not own knives of any other kind.  

I understand that there are efforts taking place to establish knives as protected by the 2nd Amendment, but in order to do so, you have to define knives as "arms".  But this approach is likely to fail (because most knives allowed by law are allowed for carry because they're not inherently weapons), & what we'll be left with is all that marketing & opinion influencing that will have occurred to convince people that knives are arms that should be protected under this constitutional provision. And when that protection fails, that will leave a lot of knives vulnerable to subsequent legislators who will take note of all those legislative proceedings, court cases, & stories in popular media -- and the only direction that could go is more restrictions on knives, not less.

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