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Comment by Lee Smith on September 16, 2013 at 15:43

I shake way too much and take to many blood thinners to even try. lol

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on September 16, 2013 at 12:41

When I was young, a barber would shave you with a straight razor and all I ever saw him use to sharpen with was a huge strop. If that helps.

Comment by Jack Haskins, Jr. on September 16, 2013 at 9:05

Does anyone here sharpen straight razors?  I recently decided to start shaving using a straight razor an part of this requires sharpening (honing) the razor.  Actually this was the reason I decided to use a straight razor. Needing to sharpen the razor just feeds my obsession on getting sharp things sharper.  I've been working on this skill and see that it is very different than sharpening knives both in technique and the sharpness needed and obtained. The "basics" are the same it seems but the level of everything (technique and sharpness) seems to be much higher.   In fact if there is an interest here it may justify a separate group just for straight razor sharpening.  It does require buying sharpening stones and/or strops that are only needed for knives for the OCD people.  For straight razors however stone grits at 8k is required and maybe even higher grits. In fact once a straight razor is "shave ready" it may never see another stone under 8k even for touch ups.  Strops also.  But using these strops on straight razors is not the same as it appears in most movies. lol

Anyway, I'm off and crawling on this sharpening journey and wondered if anyone here has the same interest.

Jack

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on August 6, 2013 at 11:05

Thanks Jack, I couldn't have said it better. I am old fashion and do things in old fashion ways. Now days there is so many new ways to sharpen a knife, I can't count them all. Some are better than others I guess. I was taught to sharpen knives, by my grand father that was born in 1907. He taught me one thing I'll pass on to you. He said when you come across a knife with poor steel and it won't take an edge, reverse your strokes on the stone. Instead of a forward stroke, stroke backwards. He said the poor steel is rolling at the very edge and is not letting you have a straight and sharp edge. I have tried this on poor knives brought to me to sharpen and it works.

Comment by Jack Haskins, Jr. on July 19, 2013 at 6:22

Robert, excellent observation and point.  It's easy to stick to our own understanding and method of doing something when what we do works and not really try to understand someone else's view point OR why they don't just adopt my way. I have thought about that.  Why doesn't someone just beginning simply do what I say and nothing else.  It works for me so it should work for anyone is my opinion.  I forget that I developed my technique and method as a result of advice from many others and then my own likes/dislikes took over.  I 'm not like one of the experts you mentioned but would like to be one day.  Also expressing our ideas and having the info received accurately is always a hard thing.   Especially when we are limited in our communication to a computer screen and keyboard.  It would be so much better when we can be in one room showing each other how we do things AND WHY.  The WHY is the most  interesting and fun I think.  When you understand the why, the method makes more sense most of the time.  You mentioned "how sharp do we want a user knife".  That's one thing I forget about.  I just seem to want every knife "sharper". :)  Thomas' opinion and explanation about this is the most laid back and accurate one I've read I think.  Much info to be gotten from that guy I bet. :) 

I hope this made sense. :)  It's still early in the am for me.

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on July 18, 2013 at 19:55

Hey guys, a good while back, we had knife sharpening experts, that were able to sharpen and polish a blade to a supper edge. They were such experts of precision, sharpening, they would not get along. We must realize, how sharp do we want a user knife. Do we want a knife sharper for tomatoes or potatoes?...lol I hope ya'll see my opinion, in the right light. Yes, Jack, these angles play a big part of that. Lets, stay friends and explore this knife sharpening subject, in a way, that we all understand, the other members point of view. Thanks....Stay Sharp!

Comment by Jack Haskins, Jr. on July 18, 2013 at 18:35

Thomas, that's really interesting.  Black hair is thicker than blonde hair???  The rest of it is slightly above my head. :)  Since I spent 3 years in 4th grade math you would think I learned something. lol  Guess not.  This type of info is interesting though.  I have another forum friend who does all kinds of tests on edges including taking highly magnified pictures of the edges.  It's amazing what my beautiful mirror finish, razor sharp edge looks like at about 300x.  Very depressing.  My edges look better in the dark. :)

Since the three of us agree about edge angles we should colaborate on a book.  I say lower angles are more better.  You can quote me. That's about all I can contribute though. :)  I'm sure Robert has input.  I'll leave the rest to you.  Proceeds from the book and your new ketchup company should keep you in the black for years. lol

Comment by Thomas Lofvenmark on July 18, 2013 at 15:56

Then we all (all three of us) have the same opinion that edge angles are very important :-).

I can only measure down to 1/1000 part off 1 millimeter mm,( that is 1 micron) and I do it in a drawing program, not in “reality”.

The difference between 10 and 11 degrees, 0,05 mm behind the cutting edge, is 1/1000 part of 1 mm more material in the edge (one side of the edge). That is not a lot off material…

But, the edge is, in this spot, 8/1000 mm thick (one side of the edge) – so we add 12,5% more material to the edge when we go from 10 to 11 degrees. (For the complete edge, there is 16/1000 parts of 1 mm thick and we add 2/1000 parts of 1 mm = still 12,5% more material to the total edge).

So, when I add 1 degree to the edge I make the edge 12,5% stronger. But, it is still only 1/1000 part of 1 mm = 0,001 mm material I add to the edge  (= 1 micron). A normal hair from your head, if you are blond, is around 50 micron thick. If you have black hair it can be about 100 micron thick.

What we are talking about when we talk edges and degrees is very small amount of material we add to the edge, or, take away from the edge.

I do not know how deep scratches a diamond sharpener, in for example 25 micron, makes in the material – but I like to know this. Do anyone here knows this?

Thomas

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on July 17, 2013 at 19:59

Thomas, that's what I was trying to convey about angels and different knives for different jobs. Also, just how sharp you want a knife for different jobs.

Comment by Jack Haskins, Jr. on July 17, 2013 at 7:50

Thomas, I too have learned how important the edge angles are.  Just recently for me though.  My understanding and opinion is the lower the angle and thinner the blade the better it will cut.  This is always true.  However the cutting task, even the steel type make very thin edges impracticle for some situations.  Razor blades are very thin with low angles but I doubt they would be any good at cutting fire wood.  Or, a camp knife with higher angles (40° inclusive for example) can be sharp enough to shave but won't do in the kitchen cutting vegetables.  Another exaple is I got a tough folder once (SOG Tomcat).  It had very good steel and I had it very sharp.  I knew with my new tough knife it would handle anything.  Then I tried to cut some sheetrock.  DEFINATELY the wrong tool no matter how sharp it was. :)  Also, it wasn't sharp any more. :)  Now what I do with all my pocket knives is put a low angle on the edge then a micro bevel at a higher angle.  You hit on this yourself as a way to get good cutting performance and protect the edge also.  I can sit there sharpening playing with and experimenting with this stuff and my wife can't understand it.  That's ok.  I don't understand her glass stuff in a china cabinet. :)  I told her once I was going to get a china cabinet to hang my tools in.  Then I could sit there looking at them like she does the glass. :)  Her glass is pretty though.  Almost as pretty as my circular saw. lol

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