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Comment by Jack Haskins, Jr. on July 9, 2013 at 13:43

Steve,

Right now I use an Edge Pro for  reprofiling but for the final edge and touch ups I free hand.  I have DMT stones and a Spyderco fine grit bench stone.  I want a spyderco Ultra fine stone but don't need it.  However, the wants usually win out over the needs. :)  The stones I love most are Shapton glass as far as performance, feel, etc.  They are the only stones I've used that will leave a mirror finish without stropping.  The 8k is the beginning of the mirror finish grits.  I prefera a coarser grit micro bevel for the edge on EDC knives.  I have the Shapton Glass stones for the EP so if I want a mirror finish I use them then free hand for the final edge.  I can bet better results for the final edge free hand.  The EP is very good but IMO you get a better "feel" free hand.

Comment by Jack Haskins, Jr. on July 9, 2013 at 9:54

Just now joined the knife sharpeners group.  I have become passionate about sharpening knives in the past few years.  All my life I've been able to get my pocket knives sharp enough to shave my arm and I thought that was sharp.  I've gotten way past that and am still learning.

Comment by Thomas Lofvenmark on June 26, 2013 at 20:40

Let us see if this work for you to se the picture...:)

Serch on Google pictures for "sword polishing" and you get up a lot of pictures. Raw 11 for me shows this picture. You will se annold boom illustration, two men, faced eaxhother and holding both their hands against eaxhother in stommac heigt. They have a "bench" behind them. On the bench you can see a sword blade - and they polish the sword.

I hope this method will work :)

Thomas

Comment by Thomas Lofvenmark on June 26, 2013 at 14:21

Hi Robert,

You menchen Lansky. Lansky are a tool who use the law of Physic,mthe blade is fixed in the tool and the sharpening angle is also fixed in the same tool. That means that the edge cannot be anything else than 100 % flat.

Now to details about this :) Small tools as Lansky can only sharpen small blades. The blade length are limmited. Max blade length, in my opinion, is about 12 cm. This becose of the fact that the distance from the pivot point (the balance point where thebguide rod slides thruu) and the edge differs a little between the both ends of the blade and the middle of the blade. The longer distance will give a little lower edge angle. For a blade length in 10 cm this change och edge angle is very small and we all can live with them. But, if the blade length is 15 cm, this change starts to be big and around degrees, not part off degrees.

A nice thing to do to compensate this is to benefit from this problem. Clamp your Lansky close ro the handle and grind your edge. If you use 15 degree slot, you will get 15 degree on the edge close to the handle where you use the hardest "force" - and about 13 degrees edge close to the tip where you use less force. It is a nice type of edge, simple to mantain.

How smooth the edge will become has nothing to do with the sharpening tool. It is the sharpeners grit who decide hiw smooth the edge will be. Very fine grits give a smooth edge as I am sure you know. The sharpening tool gives you only one thing, that is a fixed angle, that is all.

I shall try to show the picture in some other way becouse I think it is informative, not so much off what it shows, but informative in that way that people can see that sharpening tools is not something new, thay are very old.

Today I think a lot of people think that sharpening tools is a new thing, constructed by people who have failed with free hand sharpening. That is very vrong. For 1000 yars ago, when people really use edged tools every day, they understood that they need fixed angles to get the best edges possible - and they constructed simple tools who follow the law of phycics, and, they did it in a way so they cold maintain that edge in the same angle.

Thomas

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on June 26, 2013 at 9:23

Hey Thomas, I couldn't get the link either.

      You have a well educated discussion going and it's  very interesting. I have tried a few gadget sharpeners and they worked fine to a point. [ Lanskey] I sharpen knives for a lot of people and the tools I use are "oil stones, water stones [Japan] and a strop, some times a diamond block.

       Thanks for your reply, I would love to see vintage knife sharpening devises. You may get it on some other way.

        This group has been inactive for a while, I was just trying to keep the discussions going. I forgot to thank you for a well written Comment. Thanks

Comment by Thomas Lofvenmark on June 26, 2013 at 8:28

The link do not work, sorry, follow this link instead:

http://image.ox.ac.uk/images/bodleian/m ... 64/49r.jpg

Look far down to the left for the picture :)

Schola Forum is a nice forum for you if you are interested i old blank weapons of varius kinds.

Thomas

Comment by Thomas Lofvenmark on June 25, 2013 at 17:57

Hi Robert,

This painting is from the dark ages and show how some sword grinders polish a sword. This picture is about 5-600 hundred years old- and they use a “sharpening tool” to do the work.

[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img14/983/5y13.jpg[/IMG]

Polishing edges is not a new thing J,

By the way, I have sharpened edged tools for about 55 years now, the first 40 years by free hand.

I discuss (argue) with you if you like, I also enjoy a good positive discussion.

Thomas

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on June 24, 2013 at 18:56

You make a good argument for mechanical sharping and it's true a lot of people are better off with this type of method. I am sure you must not have heard of blade polishing and sharpening and people that can polish a blade free hand after years of experience. The sharpest blades I have ever seen were all Free Hand. I am not able to explain it correctly but I'll try get one of our members to explain it a lot better than I can. Please understand, I am not trying to be argumentative, just enjoying a good discussion, on different opinions.

Comment by Thomas Lofvenmark on June 24, 2013 at 13:07

Part 3


Two flat and smooth surfaces who meets in a low angle = sharp.

Flat edges can you make with a sharpening tool with the help of the law av physics.
Smoothe edges, and how smooth they will be- decides by your choice of sharpeners.
You must check out that the two surfaces really meets.
The low angle is up to you to decide. What you shall use the knife to do, decides this.

Is 100% sharpness something important to have? No, absolutley not! An edge shall only be as sharp the tool need to function perfect - durng so long time as possible.

Sharpness must be balanced with retention. That is why stone age people start to grind their tools for 10.000 years ago...

Thomas

Comment by Thomas Lofvenmark on June 24, 2013 at 13:06

Part 2

Are convex edges bad? Absolutley not. Depending on what you shall use the knife to do, you choose the type of edge you need to have, flat or convex. When you have decided the type of edge - you must decide the edge angle you need to have.

For soft wood an 19 degree flat edge very well, for hard wood works a flat edge on 23-26 degree perfect. (Total edge angle).

For butchering - a convex edge with 3 degree convex sphere and 26 degree cutting edge works perfect. For chopping works 6 degree convex sphere and 30 degree cutting edge perfect.

(Edges are personal things and we all use our knifes differently, so if you prefer other edge angles then I do, is perfectly ok).

Convex edges are likly sensetive on their cutting edges angles and convex spheres as flat edges are on their edge angles. The problem is that most people do not understand this today. We have lost a lot of knowledge our forefathers had....People today think that if their edge is convex, it is the best edge to have. It is not, and it is - depening on to what thwybuse ronknife to do - and how they use the knife.

Today we have two main types of sharpening tools - and free hand sharpening.

1."Physic law (locked) Tools" who use the law of physics = both the blade and the sharpening angle are locked in the tool wich guarantee you a perfect flat edge.

2. Half freehand tools = one part are locked and cannot move, the other part is hand hold.

3. Free hand sharpening - both parts moves free " in the air".

It is impossible to hold a constant angle during free hand sharpening. From the sholder out to your fingertips there is 17 joints. This means that 34 joints shall move at the same time + muscles and so on - and it is so many joints that it is impossible to hold a constant angle. It is impossble for us humans to come under 3 degree wobble. That is a fact.

Half freehand tools can come down to about 1,5-2 degree wobble. Locked tools make absolute flat edges. Your personal needs decides how you shall grind your edge - and wich tool you need to have.

I have read some people rewievs about locked tools, some say that they cannot get a flat edge with them, they can see that the edge angle varius when they use them. Yes they can, that is a quality mark on all this tools. They make a so flat edge that the user can se varaiations lesser than 1 / 100 parts of 1 degree! That is a quality mark!
This means that it is necesarry to understand what it is you are seeing happen on the edge.

On locked tools, the length between the edge and the pivot point where the guide rod slides thruu have a big importance. Long distance (long guide rods) gives higher angle precision and less small variations on both ends of the edge compare to the middle of the blade. Short distance ( short guide rods) give higher variations - and less precision.

One more thing, when the knife is locked in the tool, and the sharpening angle also ar locked in the same tool, it cannot be anything else then flat - and it do not matter if the tool stands horisontal or vertical on a table, or, if the tool is hand hold in the air. The result will be the same.

All sharpening tools do only one thing, they help you to hold a constant angle. That is all they do. Many people belive that the tool gives perfect smooth and shiny edges. They do not - your choice of sharpener do that.

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