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Comment by Halicon on May 19, 2011 at 14:50

I see Robert, I didn't mean to come off sounding like an ass but I couldn't wrap my mind around how you use whetstones for some knives and oil for others.

 

Oil stones are very beginner friendly, much more so than any synthetic and perhaps a tiny bit less than premium dollar natural whetstones, but those puppies are more or less only for the professional polisher as they belong to the elite echelon of quality, something like $1000 and above for a rectangular sized at 2lbs.

 

That is because of the nature of the particles that can withstand the negative impact from larger serrations than what the stone has due to it's extreme hardness. To put it simply, stones with Novaculite can cover a range of grits that a whetstone would probably have to utilize 2-3 different stones for.

 

The result with a whetstone is faster however but requires more skill with techniques, flatness and all that stuff so I really understand your point of view now, excuse my "insolence" before Robert.

 

I would be more than happy to assist you in some guerilla-tactics of how to use whetstones for a cheap buck without having to spend premium dollars on heavy duty rubber bases, diamond lapping stones (you can't touch steel with your lapping plate, ever).

What you would have to pay for is the stones themselves, a bucket for keeping water in (if you don't have one) and a nice concrete pavement block if you live out in the bush and not a paved area.

 

Oh, and a random panel too for making a stone holder, easy to make and I always have mine with me when I'm in the woods.

 

'tis how I did things before I had saved up enough to afford all the stuff I wanted but couldn't afford :)

 

I think you will really appreciate whetstones for carbon steels, personally I would say that's where they really shine. The edge you get on carbon steels from a 20k or 30k stone is literally amazing both aesthetically and in performance, albeit about 15k grit is enough for bush knives so it's overkill but it's still nice lol

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on May 19, 2011 at 14:33

Hal, I know you are right about whetstones but I don't have all the knowlede of their use. I have used oil stones on carbon steel knives all my life with great results. I use my whetstone on alloy and stainless knives and trying to master that. I hope to learn how to use a whetstone on all my knives but because of its aggrasive ability I am waiting till I learn more about it's use. I know it's hard for ya'll to follow what I mean sometimes. I hope to learn more about whetstones on this group, I am trying to follow what ya'll are saying. Thanks.

Comment by Halicon on May 18, 2011 at 6:48

Robert, why would you do that? There exists whetstones for exactly every type of steel out there, for steel nearly as hard as diamonds or soft like "butter steel".

 

I'm touching up a stainless set of filet knives right now, very bendy and low carbon purity, simply very soft.

For "regular" whetstones this would indeed be a problem but with the whole spectrum out there you can easily acquire one with a very good hardness (Sigma is my most recommended choice for low-carbon steels) and simply use it like you do with an Arkansas, flex the steel to the max and simply sharpen.

 

If you don't flex it properly then you will run into problems with keeping the bevel and serration pattern of it completely flush, probably the reason why you prefer India and Arkansas which are very hard compared to a normal whetstone.

A good whetstone like the case with Sigma blows those away in virtually every department though.

 

That's my experience after having tried both Arkansas and whetstones. I have a whetstone for any type of steel out there regardless of hardness and purity.

 

If you want to use oil I would suggest synthetic whetstones and then finish with a nice specimen of Charnley forest and some high-viscosity oil. A Charnley finishes at a much finer grit than an Arkansas.

From 15-20k grit for a good specimen, the dark gray and uniform type has the finest particles while the streaky green with red lines is more suited for heavy duty tools, it's still very fine compared to an Arkansas though.

 

The reason why whetstones will always "win out" against oil stones is because of the reason Mr. Russell pointed out, the Novaculite has an entirely different composition compared to a stone coming from a slate. It's particles will never break down to the same fineness of a good natural slate stone and will thus leave deep serration marks due to the abrading nature.

 

The result is a "toothier than what it looks like" kind of edge and can be examined with 300x magnification and up, something that really helps you understand the nature of Novaculite compared to the other abrasive out there.

Comment by Jan Carter on May 17, 2011 at 20:34

Robert, let me know what you think about it

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on May 17, 2011 at 18:29

Well Mr. Russell made a big sale today. I ordered two cans of his fine oil. I want to thank everyone that contributed to this little talk.

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on May 17, 2011 at 12:28

Thats not what I said. I don't use the wet stones on knives with a lower RC.

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on May 17, 2011 at 12:14

Thanks guys, I learned something and will get A.G.'s oil. I use oil on some india and Arkansaw stones with great results on knives that I don't want to subject to a Japanese wet stone.

Comment by Halicon on May 16, 2011 at 16:47

Russell, yep you spotted a mistake of mine. I have never used an India stone and thought they basically were a coarser variety of an Arkansas that were mined further south. I have good knowledge about Novaculite though and just so that you know it exists in England and many other places too but generally as much finer stones.

 

I assumed that one understands what water or oil does on a stone which is help reveal fresh new abrasive particles. Oil does this better than water for stones with Novaculite and water yield to be honest inferior results which is what I believe I typed (that it aids in breaking down the particles, not that it breakes down the particles, same when working with a whetstone and water)

In Memoriam Comment by Robert Burris on May 16, 2011 at 14:30

Mr. Russell, Do ya'll still sell this fine oil today? If so what is the part number?

In Memoriam Comment by A. G. Russell on May 16, 2011 at 11:14

Don,

Any good sewing machine oil will work, do not use olive oil or 3-in-1 oil as both will gum up and make the stone useless.

When I was opeerating Russell's Arkansas Olistones, Inc. in the come 1960s I had the Phillips oil company develop a fine oil just as I wanted.  After I bought 35,000 cans I could not tell it from the then Singer Sewing Machine Oil.,  today we are almost out.

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