Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on April 10, 2015 at 20:37

I cant wait to hear the responses to this Tobias.  It is a very valid point and well illustrated with the side by side photos 

Permalink Reply by tim payne on April 10, 2015 at 21:51

I like that camo zombie knife toby!

Permalink Reply by Doug Thrower on April 10, 2015 at 23:21

Yes and no.

It is a knife. Is it a "traditional" knife as we know it, no, but it is still a knife. Knives, swords and pointy things had names derived by the region they were made. I doubt a Frenchman saw an Englishman and said [in my best snooty French accent] "There goes an Englishman wearing an English long sword". He merely saw a sword. Some had names like a Japanese Katana, but they were keen to name things. But as time goes by, we as collectors started assigning names to categorize and differentiate the many styles. Be bit of a mess of a catalogue if everything was called a "knife". This also allowed us to sort and collect styles or makes of knives we liked.

Knives are knives, are knives, but not all knives are equal. But we are equal in our love of all things sharp.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 11, 2015 at 7:46

Doug you have a point but actually Swords were given names based on function of use, their blade shape and length, and the style in which they are employed. They might say he was wielding a sword, but the trained swordsmith would know the difference between a cutlass and sabre.    And sword collectors would also be able to date the sword and determine its region of origin based on its design.  Thus we know the difference between a Scottish Claymore and an English Long Sword.

And we have the schiavona, rapiers, and mortuaries, all being used at the same time but by different people (The schiavona a backet-hilt military boradsword, the rapier a slender civilian sword, and the mortuary and backet hilt short sword used by the Cavalry)

Throughout history, we have categorized our tools and weapons. We have broad terms such a s shovel but then we use oher words for specific types of shovels"  spade, steam shovel, coal shovel, snow shovel,  long handle, short handle, d-handle, post hole digger, garden spade, etc.

My point is we know modern folders are knives. but what kind of knife?   And really in some case how much different are soem of the modern folders when compared to older traditional patterns?  (I'm trying really hard not to use the words "Tactical" and "SAR")   After all, most people define a Jackknifes as a medium to large size folding knife, normally with one or two blades and relatively straight handles.   That definition would fit just about 90% of the Spydercos that I've seen. 

And as this group is about discussing knife patterns, I ask is it wrong to apply to traditional names to modern folders.  Is it possible that that folks are rejecting the knives of our children simply out of "generational bias" in the same way some folks won't by a Chinese made knife for political reasons and this is why we won't call a Jackknife a Jackknife  but instead call it a Craptical?

Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on April 11, 2015 at 20:00

After all, most people define a Jackknifes as a medium to large size folding knife, normally with one or two blades and relatively straight handles.   That definition would fit just about 90% of the Spydercos that I've seen

Wiki says JackKnife = A jackknife, or pocket knife, is a compact, foldable knife.  Your correct that most of us think of it as the description above that you provided.  In reality a teardrop pattern is a jackknife and using that description and that type of frame.  Yep Spydies would fit well in the category.  Although I would think you would have a hard time getting a spydie collector to call it that 

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 11, 2015 at 20:24

Jan said:

"In reality a teardrop pattern is a jackknife and using that description and that type of frame.  Yep Spydies would fit well in the category.  Although I would think you would have a hard time getting a spydie collector to call it that "

And i would agree with that statement.  My point is for the people who don't collect by brand but by pattern.  Are there modern folders that also fall with the pattern you collect?  My guess is nine times out of ten there is , especially if you collect  single blade knives.

Anoher side by side example.   Below is a 100+ year old Marlinspike knife and modern era Marlinspike knife. 

The Camillus with bone handle was  known as  pattern 6353/1905 three piece clasp knife back in WWI.  Fury refers to their knife with the Black Aluminum handles as pattern 32206, Locking Marlinspike.  It is a copy of the Myerchin's P300 Sailor's Tool.  The black handle one is often called a Tactical Folding Spike Knife.  Strange considering the three piece clasp knife was made for combat and the other was designed for civilian use.

But to get to my point.  I didn't pick up the Fury because it was made by Fury or because it is a modern folder.  I bought it because I collect rigging knives (marlinspikes) and despite the major differences between the two knives they are both marlinspikes. It never even crossed my mind that the Fury was a tactical knife,   I just thought it look like one ugly fish!

Permalink Reply by Lars Ray on April 11, 2015 at 21:35

Throw some skulls on that Fury and you'll have a Tactical Zombie Spike...to better aid your rigging needs during the Zombie invasion.

And while I (for the most part) understand your commentary and even agree with you, I got your ten dimes here that says if you ever run a late night Knife show, you'll need new crazy names to sell your product too!

Just sayin'.... :-)

Permalink Reply by Ugly Old Guy on September 11, 2017 at 15:54

3 things that describe or differentiate a "modern" from a "traditional":
A modern has:
1) A Pocket Clip
2) Factory 1 hand opening; for example, a "Spidie Hole" or flipper. (the only exceptions being the one-arm knives, which pre-date the US Civil War, and an auto/switchblade, which were made prior to 1900, and "butterfly" knives, also made in the 1800's or earlier)
3) With few exceptons, screw or bolt together construction. (there were some single and multi blade knives made c1920 to c1960 that used screws/bolts rather than pins)

Basically, a "Traditional" folding knife is one that takes two hands to open (with the exceptions of the one armed, auto/switchblade and butterfly knives), and would have been well known and in use prior to 1970 or so. (this would include the Buck 110 and variants (1964) and its later clones.)
Generally traditionals have pinned construction, and, traditionals also commonly have more than one blade.


Just my 0.000025 cents worth.