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Knife making fraud

About once a year I get a call from someone that wants to let me know about fraudulent knife makers. I have some real mixed feelings about this discussion. I am not talking about someone blatantly stealing a knife design, which is just wrong in my opinion.

This conversation has evolved through many stages for me personally.

In 2009, with construction jobs scarce, Donnie was bored. I however, was doing some work in Montana or trying to between phone calls from a bored carpenter LOL. To rectify the situation, I had some blanks, handle scales, a book and some pins mailed to my home in Tampa. They came with the instructions….have some fun and stop calling me every 30 minutes. Fast forward 2009-2012 he bought blanks, we used what materials we could find and were given and he learned to put a knife together. It must have been fun because he decided he wanted to do more (he follows the have fun direction very well BTW, LOL). During this time we posted pics, talked with the others in the KNIFE MAKING BEGINNERS group and to some very helpful professionals. Donnie never called himself a knife maker and when we posted pics we posted where we got the blank from.

In 2013 he was fortunate enough to spend a little time in a prominent knife maker’s shop and learned about stock removal. He came home cut out a few, had them heat treated and put them together. He still never called himself a knife maker. That same year he had another opportunity to spend some time with maker’s at the forge and on the anvil. He had found his love. He now has a shop, a forge, 3 anvils and spends more time there than with me I think LOL. Knives at my house now begin with a piece of steel and are hammered out, Donnie still does not call himself a knife maker.

So with someone asking me to define what a custom knife maker is, I asked Donnie!! He says he doesn’t call himself a knife maker because he is not good enough yet.

In my eyes and to the folks he has gifted all those knives to Donnie has been making knives since 2009.

Here comes the issue I hear once a year:

Folks that buy blanks and handle them are not considered custom to some makers that do their own stock removal
Some of the folks that forge don’t consider the guys that do stock removal as having "made" the knife

A friend said to me recently “if they didn’t dig the ore and smelt the steel none of them made it”

I guess my point in all of this is, IN MY OPINION. If someone discloses the origin of the build, they are not being fraudulent. Could you debate the quality, possibly? But I don’t see a debate about fraud OR whether or not the person is a knife maker.

So, in your opinion? If it is disclosed before you buy it, whether it is forged, started from a blank, water jetted…whatever, is the person being a fraudulent knife maker?

Tags: Knife, fraud, making

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on June 26, 2015 at 21:32

and a fantastic guide I really like Custom vs. Customized.

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Permalink Reply by Ms Data on June 26, 2015 at 21:39

FRAUD:noun

1.deceit, trickery, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.

If you are lied to, it is fraud. If you know what you are getting, it is not fraud.

Some people need to get a life.

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FeaturedPermalink Reply by Charles Sample on June 26, 2015 at 22:11

As long as they tell me what they have done and how they did it, I don't care if they are "officially" a knife maker or not. And as long as they impart that information and are honest about it, how could that be fraud? Fraud is when you tell someone he is getting something he isn't.

My Lefty knife is an example. I visited the maker's (to me he is a maker whether officially or not) forge. He showed me the 01 tool steel bars that he starts with. He showed me the templates he uses to convert the bars of steel into knife blanks for the various models of knives that he makes. The handles of the standard model that I chose is straight but he had to forge a curved handle for mine to fit Lefty's antlers that I provided for scales.

So I knew exactly what I was getting. So whether he calls himself a knife maker or a custom knife maker or not, how could there be any fraud there?

BTW, if anyone is wondering, "What is a Lefty knife?", you can check it out here.

http://iknifecollector.com/photo/classic-hunter-by-lucas-forge-1

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Permalink Reply by John Bamford on June 27, 2015 at 4:48

I can see how these questions would bother some folks especially if a big bag of money has changed hands .

For me though I like a knife , I buy a knife !

I would hate to be deliberately sold a fake though , when I can afford that Tony Bose knife I would prefer it if he had made it .

P.s , if I ever can afford that Tony Bose knife ,or get it past my financial advisor "Her Indoors" , then it would most definitely be a fake !!

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by John McCain on June 27, 2015 at 19:09

I have never called myself a knife maker- However, I have previously shown here the handful of what I choose to call "custom knives" I have partially made. I have never attempted to sell one of mine, despite offers, so I guess I can call it whatever I want to-LOL. That being said, I would term a " custom" as a knife, that is a one of a kind, not available elsewhere.This should not be confused with a "factory custom". The handful of my "so called customs" were made from blade blanks.However, all the handles, bolsters,file work, and in all but 2, even the pins were made by me. What should I call it if not a custom ?? If I ever were to sell one, I would identify what was my work, and what was not.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Scheuerman (Manx) on June 27, 2015 at 19:11

Unfortunately, sometimes it's largely a case of semantics. Buy a blank from China, handle scales and pins from the US, assemble and sharpen in my basement here in Canada...can I say Made in Canada? The final product was, but the materials weren't. All depends on a person's definition of "made". I buy the blank and scales, I "make" them into a knife. "shrug" A hard call to make without a solid definition of Made...and a can of worms to boot. Maybe the knife industry needs to define some terminology on stuff like Made in...Handmade...Custom...these are all open to a certain amount of flexibility. If there is full disclosure when I ask (Did you make the blade?...No, I buy blanks from China) then I don't see fraud. Semantics can be a touchy thing.

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Permalink Reply by Sue OldsWidow on June 27, 2015 at 21:54

I think a knife maker...is anyone with the skill to take a piece of steel and modify it into a

useful tool...they make the blade, and add the handle of their choosing...making it a custom

knife...a one of a kind creation......

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Permalink Reply by Michael Squier on June 28, 2015 at 8:07

Fraud would only ne if the maker or seller is lying about some or all of the details in order to deceive the intended buyer, usually for the purpose of selling. If you say its a forged blade when its a ground to shape blade, fraud.

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FeaturedPermalink Reply by dead_left_knife_guy on June 28, 2015 at 15:12

If I see something on eBay that looks nice but I have a suspicion the blade was prefabricated, I usually ask the seller if that's the case. Sometimes the seller was not the maker & they just don't know. However, I've had a lot of sellers reply quite honestly that it was in fact prefabricated & they added the handles, made the sheath, etc. I've been really impressed with how honest they are about it.

Though if I have to ask that means they didn't mention it in the item description, and I wonder sometimes if that was done because it didn't occur to the seller, or if that was because they thought they might get a higher price for not mentioning it.