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Marbles vs. Rough Rider

Someone mentioned that Marbles and RR are remarkably similar. I'm not sure about all Marbles knives but I know there 5 inch toothpicks are down right exact. In fact so are the toothpicks by Raging Bull, a small TM own by Gary Gycom. His small batch knives are made in the same factory as the Rough Rider knives.

The difference between RR and Marbles is about $5-7. For that difference you're getting a Marbles shield and blade etch but not much else. The Rough Riders have the same blade, with the same profile, same steel, etc. The scales use the same bone used on other RR but not used on RR 5 inch toothpicks. The bolsters are the same triple ring nickel-silver bolsters.

Quality wise the knives are the same. The only difference is the name on the knife and the box they come in. When you get right down to it, the SMKW Rough Rider factory in China is becoming to Chinese produced knives what Camillus was to American made knives. (Those familiar with all the Case, Ka-Bar, Robeson, etc knives that were subcontracted to Camillus know what I'm getting at.) Basically Scratch a Colt or a Marbles, and you'll find a Rough Rider at a higher price tag.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on April 27, 2011 at 20:43

Well, I learned something new today, never knew about Raging Bull. When Marbles went into bankruptcy what happened exactly? Did SMKW buy the 'brand' and then just shift production to the RR factory or was the Marbles Brand already being produced in China just not in the RR factory?

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 27, 2011 at 21:10

Gentleman ..

Please , Please , Please ... qualify "Marble's" with the caveat ... "current production" !!!

... Please ...

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 27, 2011 at 21:16

That small issue aside .. you are absolutely right !!!

Look @ history .. Utica / Queen / Camillus .. all probably private labeled more knives than they stamped their own !!!!

I think it'd be a good thing if "Rough Rider" were the chinese equivalent. It should assure atleast a minimum level of "quality".

'n I whole heartedly agree that "Rough Rider" currently produces the most consistent quality .. all things being relative .. to china

However .. it is not safe to say one is literally buying the same knife. The same dies / tooling / processes are used ...NOT... necessarily the same material !!!!!

If I approach Queen to have them make 100 pcs of a current production model of theirs .. I get to specify ...

cutlery stamping

scale matl

blade matl

liner matl

shield

'n I could save some money by specifying 420HC .. it's cheaper than their std prod D2. It'll run through the same dies. It's a std option with 'em.

Then put that money into MOP scales ..or.. stag.

The result will look pretty .. 'n should sell good .. and alot of people will just ass u me it's D2.

Permalink Reply by Steve Hanner on April 27, 2011 at 21:38

Great pictures Dale, you are right about that, we should qualify that as current production!

And you bring up some great points on similar knives only appearing similar that may have differing material. As Toby said though I wonder if current production, coming out of the same factory is worth a $5-7 premium? In fact for any of the mentioned brands above what argument could they make(save marketing/label/shield) for a price premium?

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 27, 2011 at 21:45

Just remember if you scratch a Queen knife enough these days- unless I'm wrong - you'll find a blade made by Ontario Knife Company! Most of those private labels, have the blade work done at OKC. This does not detract from the quality or value of Queen knives.

OKC has been a subcontractor for some time and is just filling the void left by Camillus for many of the remaining USA made knife brands.

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 27, 2011 at 21:45

Point taken. Thanks

D ale said:

Gentleman ..

Please , Please , Please ... qualify "Marble's" with the caveat ... "current production" !!!

... Please ...

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 27, 2011 at 22:00

!!! .. EXACTLY .. !!!

Using the same example .. I go to Queen & negotiate the best deal I can .. then mark it up for sale to the general public !!!

A prime example is ..That is the best current pricing I can find .. so why is everyone else charging so much more .. capatalistic greed !!!

...'cause I gaurentee you that if "anyone" is buying these in quantity direct from Queen .. they're getting the same pricing .. they're just NOT passing it on !!!!

Greed .. .. .. .. .. but I think they'll argue things like .. shipping costs .. costs of doing business .. etc.

BS .. they just commissioned a production run of 350 pcs .. for a unit cost of .. well, most likely less than what the competitor is offoring it to the general public @ ...........

.... Oooops on the GREED rant .. :D ale

Steve"Hog"Hanner said:

... you bring up some great points on similar knives only appearing similar that may have differing material. As Toby said though I wonder if current production, coming out of the same factory is worth a $5-7 premium? In fact for any of the mentioned brands above what argument could they make(save marketing/label/shield) for a price premium?

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 27, 2011 at 22:05

That's why companies expend sooooooooo much money maintaining their ...

"BRAND RECOGNITION"

Once they have (or buy) that .. they can get away with selling .. anything .. for awhile

This is kind of a pet peeve for me .. I like the older cutlery .. 'n i've seen the older respected named bastardized sooo many times .. if you've enough money .. you can BUY the 'quality" name .. produce SHT .. "n succesfully sell it .. for awhile.

I recently posted a pic of a 100+ yr old pc of MARBLE'S cutlery .. to which a member responded .. ???marbles ??? marbles ??? isn't that that POS brand you can buy nywhere right now......

Well .. he was right .. and .. wrong. But, there was NO reason for him to know any different. That is the only MARBLE'S he and other's of his generation know.

:(

Steve"Hog"Hanner said: In fact for any of the mentioned brands above what argument could they make(save marketing/label/shield) for a price premium?

Permalink Reply by stephen tungate on April 27, 2011 at 22:25

no body can argue about that you all are right. rr is good qualty knives at a lower price and i beleave they do use the same factory and people build all of those and use mostly the same material....

In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on April 27, 2011 at 22:33

Indeed ..

Servotronics purchased Ontario Knife Company in April 1967 and in 1...

Hstory does weave a tangled web .. with just about every Cutlery Co one would care to investigate .. it is what they have to do to survive !!!!!

Tobias Gibson said:

Just remember if you scratch a Queen knife enough these days- unless I'm wrong - you'll find a blade made by Ontario Knife Company! Most of those private labels, have the blade work done at OKC. This does not detract from the quality or value of Queen knives.

OKC has been a subcontractor for some time and is just filling the void left by Camillus for many of the remaining USA made knife brands.

Permalink Reply by J.J. Smith III on April 28, 2011 at 1:08

"...The difference between RR and Marbles is about $5-7. For that difference you're getting a Marbles shield and blade etch but not much else. ..."

Well, you do get a nice little zippered pouch with the Marbles.

Though to be fair about it, RR gave a pouch out with their Whittlin Buddy...

Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on April 28, 2011 at 8:48

Also to be fair, there are some old Marble's frames from their USA days that have been carried over to current production models and are only found in the Marble's line. SMKW also produces some Marble's knives some where in Central or South America, such as the orange machete with the 1095 carbon blade.

for the record, I do think SMKW is trying to keep the quality up on the name-brands they have bought. With that said, I agree that the current production is different and it is important to not this difference, rather it be Marble's Camillus, Schrade and host of other companies that have gone through receivership or been bought out.

This in turn brings me back to the upstart Rough Rider. It is made in China. There is no secret to that. For the price the quality is superb. In fact, for the price it is unrivaled. Unlike so many of the other China knives that are made under the guise of well-established American brand names, Rough Rider has had to build a reputation from scratch and its popularity and its reputation grows with every passing year. That's why I collect them and that's why I use them. Will they ever rival Case in collect-ability? Depends on what you mean. They won't be worth as much but then they didn't cost as much to begin with. Still, I think you'll find a lot of people with RR collections in the future.