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Permalink Reply by Steve Scheuerman (Manx) on July 25, 2017 at 15:53

I think so, yes. Everyone starts to care when the money is being taken from their own pockets. Covering their own asses might actually help the consumer in this case!

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KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by Paul S on July 25, 2017 at 18:32

   I recently started using eBay again after a long absence-Previously bought a few woodworking planes then bought a clunker plane...didn't use eBay again until now about 10 years later.  Buying newer knives such as out of business Canal Street Cutlery is fairly safe.

    Should eBay work it saves me a few longer trips to shows-two days of travel and costs from two nights of overpriced hotels-that is a lot of overhead. 

  The problem with buying on line is that you may not find quality knives such as at shows.  Recently I got a high priced antique knife and luckily it looks good. Every collector of anything worries about fakes with good reason.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Scheuerman (Manx) on July 28, 2017 at 14:06

 I will buy cheaper stuff from ebay like disposable electronics, but when it comes to knives, I lean more to the reputable online dealers, and make darn sure I use PayPal Goods and Services. Plus, with the amount of Facebook Groups out there, getting referrals to solid sellers is getting easier, Just have to be careful, do your research and due diligence. 

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on July 28, 2017 at 14:22

Sage advice !!

Steve Scheuerman (Manx) said:

... , Just have to be careful, do your research and due diligence. 

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on July 28, 2017 at 18:59

You know I have always had dealers.  If you find some good ones, you will always get a good deal and they begin to know your collection.  If they find something your looking for..your dealer may even call you.

I can personally recommend every dealer that is here as a sponsor.  Looking through the site you will find that many members swear by them also.  They obviously are my dealers of choice, most of them folks I knew and bought from before I bought iKC.

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FeaturedPermalink Reply by dead_left_knife_guy on July 28, 2017 at 20:16

Hey, y'all!  This is really interesting.  Thank you, Jan, for posting this!

For anyone who wants to actually read Spyderco's complaint, this was the only link I was able to find it at (without registering or paying any fees):  https://thecounterfeitreport.com/uploads/media/pr_2017-07-27_compla...

I've been into intellectual property for decades, kind of a casual interest I have yet to get paid for.  I've definitely been into the intersection of intellectual property & knives, especially with all the "prior art" & "obviousness" that leads to knives not really being patent-oriented or even patentable...

Anyway, I'm reading through Spyderco's complaint right now, & will likely post journalistic commentary as I read further.  Like I said, I am really glad Jan posted this...  :)

My first thought is that while the court Spyderco filed in is appropriate, eBay will likely remove to another jurisdiction, one that's more friendly to eBay.  Of course eBay will probably push for dismissal via summary judgment, maybe the first thing they do.  And if there are any similar cases in similar jurisdictions siding with eBay, they'll likely use those to push for dismissal.

Ebay will no doubt compare themselves to a flea market where they've taken adequate precautions & constructed adequate controls to ensure safety & combat fraud, & they'll sight the number of transactions that occur every day (or every year) & the number of sellers on eBay & point out how small Spyderco's numbers are in comparison to those numbers & push back by saying that, though any number of counterfeits is an unfortunate number, they're actually doing very well in combating it (& hey, it's really hard to prove a negative, so proving how many counterfeits eBay has stopped is pretty much impossible). 

I'm going to look into whatever cases I can find involving eBay on similar trademark infringement claims, now I'm just really curious...

Though my first thought is that eBay is a much, much bigger company than Spyderco, & if Spyderco was to win on these claims, it could cost eBay A LOT of money in combating future trademark infringements -- not to mention the costs of defending against a many claims that could come pouring in from other companies...  An adverse ruling could be really, really expensive for eBay...

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KnifeMakerPermalink Reply by Paul S on July 29, 2017 at 7:19

If you do a search for "eBay Counterfeits Lawsuits" there is a history of lawsuits with settlements for many types of items-some suits won and others lost. Making a profit in retail is tough but fraud (representing a nonconforming product with the intent to deceive) makes it even worse. The other large auction site Alibaba has a reputation which seems to keep many USA buyers away.
Seems that there are international laws to be written and enforced by multiple governments-perhaps we are ready for that.

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on July 29, 2017 at 12:54

Thanks DLKG!  I am curious where it goes also.  It appears Spyderco set this up very well with documenting the notice to sellers and Ebay of the items and then Ebay doing nothing to stop,prevent or even slow down the same offenders

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FeaturedPermalink Reply by dead_left_knife_guy on July 29, 2017 at 16:37

Here's something eBay will also use in its defense:  the VeRO ("Verified Rights Owner") program, something eBay implemented to, in eBay's words, "Protect ... IP rights and ensure compliance for selling."  There are a few dozen companies that have included statements for consumers regarding fraudulent or counterfeit items; notably, Spyderco is not among them.  Spyderco shouldn't be required to have posted a statement to show its participation in the VeRO program, but I would wonder, if this was such a big deal to them, why they wouldn't have a statement to consumers or be participant in this program on eBay.

http://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/listing/create-effective-listin...

My understanding is that eBay also has a hands-off approach to such claims, & they put the person/entity claiming infringement in touch with the seller about whom the complaint is made.  Of course, when it comes to counterfeit Spyderco knives, I'd guess that the lion's share of these sellers are in China.  Pretty unlikely any legal claim against these Chinese companies would go anywhere, so Spyderco wants eBay to suspend or ban these sellers.  Ebay's likely going to come back with a list of sellers they have suspended or banned following the complaints they received from Spyderco, & also from other eBay users who reported counterfeit Spyderco knives (given that this is eBay's business, no doubt they have many such account suspensions & deletions recorded & will provide them as part of the litigation document discovery process).

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Permalink Reply by Jan Carter on July 30, 2017 at 10:21

All VERY good points.  This will not be Ebays first rodeo with this type of litigation.  We will keep following any progress we can with this.  I have a few contacts at Spyderco also so maybe we can get an inside look at this after it is not longer an active case

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Permalink Reply by Tobias Gibson on August 6, 2017 at 20:33

When the counterfeits and the claims start cutting into eBay's profits they'll do something about it until then it is somebody else's problem.

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In MemoriamPermalink Reply by D ale on August 7, 2017 at 10:19

I completely agree with Tobias.

'tis all driven by the almighty $.

!!! ..sad ..but.. true.. !!!

Tobias Gibson said:

When the counterfeits and the claims start cutting into eBay's profits they'll do something about it until then it is somebody else's problem.

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